Who Were the Irish?
Aug 11th, 2009 by
L Stephen O
The Book of Invasions lists many groups who came to Irish shores, the first three left only bones. A grand-daughter of Noah, the Parthalonians (sp?), and then the Nemedians.
Now the Nemedians are another matter perhaps, it is claimed that the Nemedians returned as both the Fir Bolg and the Tuatha de Danan and were sons of Nemed from Greece. Also an argument might be made that the Fomorians, seafarers from the north or Africa, or who knows (? (Phonecia?)) may have lived at times on Irish shores, it can also be said that their bones remained as they are reputed to have been involved in several notable battles with various Irish dwelling peoples. I wonder if the Fomor had more to do with things than just popping in to oppress from time to time and also who they might be.
Since Nemedians were the progenators of both the Fir Bolg and the De Danans one might class them as survivors if one accepted that the Milesians only drove them underground into the FaeRig mounds.
Legend and lore often focuses on the kings and their linege. If it is at all possible one might think about who the people were, the ones who carried the water and rounded up cattle and made the food that the champions feasted upon. In particular, without having read the Book of Invasions, the title suggests that someone was there to bear the successive waves of invasion, perhaps someones other than Tuan.
Well that’s a start and I really aught to fill more in, but there is little enough time except to say that Niall of the Nine Hostages (yes yes, I’m back to that) is an excellent illustration of what I’m going on about. Niall, was Irish, well, half so. Niall’s father was Eochaid Mugmedon, but his mother was a Saxon princess. That makes his blood half Saxon. But I would submit that what really made Niall Irish was not his father, but the druid who saved his life and raised him.
Much later Normans would come to conquer Ireland, again the rulers changed, but it is funny. I’ve heard it said that the Norman lords became more Irish than the Irish themselves. Is it because, irrespective of the ruler, the people stay pretty much the same?
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Waves
Something NEW Every Day
Aug 5th, 2009 by
L Stephen O
I’m going to begin to talk about the Celtic legends and lore that I want to be part of my fantasy world. For those not familiar with Celtic legends let me tell you, I know pretty much everything there is to know about the topic (errr, but to those who do know, ummm, uhh, let’s just say I’m putting it out there from memory.)
Because this is such a horribly quick and ill thought out post I will be forced to follow up, refine, and probably retract much of it. Still… …here goes.
I am an Irishman, of that there is no doubt. In fact, my sister having done a little comparative genealogical work (thanks Debbie), I know that I am descended from kings. Notably I am descended from one king in particular who seems, mitochondrially anyhow, to have a lot of descendants. Common to both my father and my mother is one notable person from out of the Celtic past. The O’Neills and the McNeils both spring from the same ancestor, Niall Noigillach. Niall, I’ve been told, means champion, and Noigillach means “of the nine hostages”.
Perhaps the bye name harks back to a king who conquered the nine sub-kings, leaders of minor tuaths around him, but some say Niall, counted as a high king, Ard Rig of all Ireland, came by the name for taking hostages as assurance of support from the 5 parts of Ireland, and four others elsewhere, like France. Intriguing and I’ll have to look into that.
Another legend about this fellow, Niall, is that it was he who captured Patrick and brought him to Ireland the first time as a slave. Indeed, some legends have it that it was Niall’s son Loeigre (sp?) who met Patrick on his return and through a Samhain’s day miracle began the island nation’s conversion to Christianity. Again, this requires study, so I’m putting it out there and checking and confirming later.
Niall is also very notable for the impact he had on the leadership of Ireland. Legend has it that Niall was promised the kingship for generations and the Ui Niall dynasty, or perhaps dynasties is a better way to put it, dominated the high kingship ever after. Often it seems one son of Niall got it by wacking off the head of another, but it traded back and forth until Brian Boru broke the string.
Lest I perpetuate a misconception that I do not hold, let me just say that the true genesis of the Niall clans, the various Ui Niall dynasties, was a later descendant, Niall Glundubh (that is Niall Black Knee) . In fact, Niall Nine Hostages is supposed to be, or is claimed by other clans as a progenitor. I’ll look up some of that stuff too.
It is a rich topic, no doubt, these moldy legends of kings and kingdoms or rather Righs and Tuaths, I have not even mentioned Conn of the Hundred Battles, or Saint Columkill (I think I’m murdering the name) or Tigernmas, or even Niall’s father Eochaid Mugmedon, who seems a fine fellow until you learn that his bye name means something approaching “the enslaver” or something like that. (I like to call him grandpa.)
I think I’ve successfully created something NEW, not good, but perhaps further days will see more care and concentration of effort. For now I give you NEW.
LSO
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Work Thanks